Loving love in Lüneburg

In this episode, David Gilland, Resident Director for USAC Lüneburg, chats with Jorana and John, a couple studying abroad together in Germany. They share how they’ve grown together abroad navigating cultural differences, and David reflects on his own cross-cultural marriage to a German. Whether it’s discovering little quirks of German life or learning to balance different cultural values, this episode shares inspiring stories of the joys and challenges of life abroad with someone special.

Have an idea for a future episode or just want to learn more about study abroad? Email us at studyabroad@usac.edu.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Introduction: Welcome - hello! (German, Herzlich Willkommen - moin, moin!) 

[00:00:06] Alejandra M: Would you rather be in a long-distance relationship or bring your partner with you on an adventure across the globe? Well, today's episode dives into love abroad with Jorana and John, a couple navigating life in Germany together. Hosted by David Gilland, Resident Director of USAC Lüneburg, we explore partnership, culture, and the quirks of German life. Plus, David's own experience in a cross-cultural marriage. So, grab a coffee and tune in for stories of the joys and challenges of life abroad, especially when it's shared with someone special.

[00:00:42] David Gilland: Hello and welcome to THE Study Abroad Pod my name is David Gilland, and I have been the USAC resident director in Lüneburg, Germany for about two and a half years. Today I'm talking with two of my current students, Jorana and John, a couple who is long distance in the States but chose to study abroad together here in Lüneburg. Jorana, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? 

[00:01:07] Jorana B: Hi, so my name is Jorana Banseviciute. I am majoring in International Studies and Germanic Studies and my home university is Indiana University, Bloomington. 

[00:01:19] David Gilland: Okay. And John, can you tell us about yourself as well? 

[00:01:22] John K: Yeah. My name is John Cook. I study chemical engineering at the University of Utah, also originally from Indiana.

[00:01:34] David Gilland: Can you tell us a bit about what brought you both to Lüneburg, Germany, and how long you've been here? 

[00:01:40] Jorana B: So we've been here for, let's see, almost four months in Lüneburg. And what brought us here was really, well, there was one day we were talking about studying abroad because it's required for my major at my home university, and then John was currently doing a co -op for a company and had to take a semester off of school, and then realized he would have to graduate later, so that kind of give him some space to also study abroad and there was one random day we were calling each other and he said, Jorana should I study abroad? And I said, yeah, that would be awesome, and then he said, would you do it with me? And. we just said, I just said, okay, but we have to be 100 percent on this and we just said, okay, let's do it. And then we did it. 

[00:02:32] David Gilland: And how did you, how did you find Lüneburg and USAC? 

[00:02:36] John K: Well, I had a really good friend at the University of Utah that is also an engineer, and he had done a summer study abroad program in Prague with USAC and he totally loved it. He told, he tells so many stories about that time and he was a major proponent of USAC and so I had spoke with Jorana. We both have a common background in high school German and Lüneburg, Germany. It looked really awesome, and I thought it would be absolutely great to just be able to spend that time together in Germany. 

[00:03:10] David Gilland: That's a great story, and so what were your expectations about studying abroad before arriving and how have they changed since you've been here?

[00:03:20] John K: I didn't, I knew a little bit of what to expect from, from my buddy that had studied in Prague, but I was really, really excited to get immersed in the culture. learn the language and kind of study at a German university. I didn't really even know that we were, we would be like headquartered at a university in another country. So, I thought that was really cool being able to be part of Leuphana, and I think it's really cool how, integrated we actually have become with the German university. That's something I definitely didn't expect coming in was having all the opportunities that we have to kind of mingle with the student body, talk to the international students. A lot of our, shared USAC field trips have been including other international students, and as well as I've had the ability to join some fitness programs at the university, play some basketball with the German students, so it's been really cool just being able to mingle, really mingle with the other university students, so, yeah. I think that was really cool. That's something I didn't expect as much, but it is awesome. It's been really nice. 

[00:04:29] Jorana B: I think some of my expectations were definitely just obviously being so much part of the German culture. I mean for the last like five six years I’ve been doing German classes and it's kind of like one hour, two hours in the classroom and then you walk out and that's it, and then here it's just 24/7. I mean, you can walk anywhere. You're constantly speaking German, being around German people, and I definitely had expectations, really good expectations because I was really excited to just be in the situation that I want to just talk as much German as I can. I want to be around these people. So, yeah. 

[00:05:10] David Gilland: That's great, because one of the things that you want to do as a Resident Director in study abroad is, is kind of foster these relationships with locals, but it's, it's not something that is particularly, particularly easy to do. So, I'm really glad to hear that, that you all have been able to find that, just to ask a little bit more, and this is kind of also just for my own interest, but like, what in what situations during the normal day, do you really come in contact with say German students the most? 

[00:05:42] John K: Well, definitely having a German roommate. So, our first roommate, he was German, but he had graduated. So, we switched off with another roommate, so that was that is definitely helped, like, speaking German to them, encountering him, and his friends, they're kind of inviting us introducing us to kind of their social circles, so that's one of the biggest ways we've been able to meet German students and also utilizing the fitness studio because I've been participating in the Brazilian jiu jitsu program at the Hochschulsport, which is awesome. By the way, it's really cool that they have something like that here, and I've been doing that every Wednesday and they've got yeah, international students there, German students, so they're speaking, speaking German to those, to those guys there, so those are a lot of the big experience, and also just every day in the Trafos where we have our classes, where we're studying, there's always German students sitting at the tables, studying, studying in the room, so, encountering them there's really, really often as well. 

[00:06:43] Jorana B: Yeah, and then there's the Mensa on campus, like the cafeteria and all the Leuphana students go there. So sometimes if you're sitting close or you just want to talk to someone new you always have the opportunity to make friends or just talk to anyone you would like. 

[00:06:58] John K: Yeah, I really love talking to the to the ladies that work at the Mensa I always ask them for extra for extra fleisch. Which is just extra meat. Whenever I order food, they always, sometimes they'll compliment my German, so that's always really nice. They always greet me with smiles, so I always appreciate that. And the Mensa, by the way, it is, the translation is like the dining hall, like it's like the dining hall at Leuphana University, so. The ladies that worked there, hopefully, yeah, it's been cool. They've been, been giving me give me some props on my German skills. That was good to hear. 

[00:07:41] David Gilland: So, that's really fantastic. And that doesn't surprise me. I've been in Lüneburg for quite a long time. So, on the on the other. On the other hand, I think that's, yeah, to be expected here. People are pretty friendly. So, what has been the most surprising or unique aspect of living in Germany that you've encountered so far? 

[00:08:03] Jorana B: I think personally, for me, the most surprising has just been, really just like especially because Leuphana is like very focused on environmental studies. So just like the level of sustainability and how much people's lives just are so much different than where I feel like where we're from and also so there's just so many aspects of that. Just the things they eat, like everyone rides bikes here. You can take a bus. You don't have to drive and just really incorporating that in your life and even, for example, the Mensa, it's mostly, like, the dining hall, it's mostly, vegetarian and vegan food, some meats, so just trying really great new foods and, like, It's just it was way more of these things than I thought there would be and it was nice learning about it especially through a class that was offered through USAC that I'm taking and it's really interesting. 

[00:09:04] David Gilland: So, what elements of that focus on sustainability. Do you think you'll take back to the U. S with you? 

[00:09:14] Jorana B: Yeah, I definitely think the biggest thing I'll take back as like, for example, just even trash separation here, like just there at the end of the day, there are ways to do that in the United States. They're just maybe more uncomfortable and out of the way, but it's something that I think after coming back to the United States, it's going to feel like so wrong to just not do it. And so I think I'm going to be taking that back, definitely going to be taking back the biggest thing is just what I'm eating and just seeing that there's meals can come from not primarily meat based meals. We can try other things that are also probably better for you. So taking that back, more walking, more biking, cause at the end of the day, it's, it's so fun and it's so great and it's really helps your mental health. I could always tell I would have a hard day and then I would have to walk home cause I missed the bus and I didn't want to wait. And I would come back home just from walking and I would already feel so much better. 

[00:10:20] David Gilland: John, what about you? What's been the most surprising or unique aspect of life in Germany for you? 

[00:10:26] John K: I definitely think that one of the biggest things is definitely the transportation. A lot less students have cars here. There's only maybe one or two cars that are in the parking lot at the, at the apartments that we're living in. So it's really different. So many people ride bikes, like it's, it's incredible. It's so cool to see, cause I really like, I really like to like stay in good shape. That's something I really like to try to do. So I've, I've got a bike and I've been biking back and forth and I've been really, really enjoying it. So, I think that's one of the biggest changes is that everyone is commuting, walking, biking, and taking the public transportation. So, I think that's a really big change from the U. S., but it's definitely been, definitely been really nice being able to bike to class, stay in good shape, even when it gets a little cold. It's still good to get up in the morning and get, get active. It's a good way to start the day, I really think so. 

[00:11:19] David Gilland: Yeah, I know I was just pedaling over here and the wind, you know, like, blasting against my face and I did think for a second, I kind of wish I was in my car, but I'm also really glad I'm on the bike. So, yeah, that's life in northern Germany. So have you guys encountered any cultural challenges and maybe how did you, how did you navigate those? 

[00:11:43] John K: Well, I think that it's definitely been easier to adapt to the culture, like having, having Jorana here and having a lot of the other, American students with USAC. So, we always have the people that share our culture, with us when things get hard. So, I think that's been really helpful. And Jorana is also like European. So, she, she's Lithuanian, by the way, from Lithuania, which is an absolutely awesome country. It was awesome. So, she, she understands the culture and she was a lot, she, a lot of the things that they do here. I'm like, wow, like a lot of the things that Jorana does in her family. Like stuff that they just are normal in Europe, and I never even realized now I'm here and it's really cool to see that perspective. One of the biggest things is I think just how the just eating at restaurants and having meals is one of the biggest things that's different in Europe and America because in America it's I feel like they're always trying to rush you out the door but in Europe I think having a nice family dinner, sitting down, sitting around the table, spending time. Like spending really quality time talking to each other as opposed to just trying to get in there and the food I think is one of the biggest things and that's something that we always do with Jorana's family also little things like drinking tea, like eating little biscuits and chocolates and stuff and it's, it's, it's a, it's different and I was like, wow, it's so cool that Jorana's family does all these things and that's also what they do here, you know, we have a nightly tea time every night. We just sit down not every night, but a lot of nights, we'll sit down in the afternoon after a long day, drink some tea before bed. That's always really nice to do. So, I think I’m totally converted prior to being in Germany like I was a coffee guy all the way. Like, coffee's good. I still will. I still love a cup of black coffee in the morning. Like I will stand by that black coffee in the morning is absolutely fantastic, but a nice hot cup of tea before bed, especially when it's cold is really, really nice. It was not a big tea guy before I got here, but I think that's something that I will definitely, bring back from the trip. So 

[00:13:54] David Gilland: Very good. Since we're, we're talking about you two as a couple, have you developed any new traditions or habits to support each other while living in a foreign country? 

[00:14:04] John K: Well, it's definitely been a big change. Just first of all, just being just being able to live together in the first place, you know, because we've been a long-distance couple for the past three years. For most of the year, I've been at school in Utah and Jorana has been in Indiana. So that's been a really big challenge to navigate. And this is really like the first time we're actually able to be in the same place and stuff like that. And we do love like cooking together for dinners. And that's something that we really enjoy. Sometimes Jorana is a lot better of a cook than I am, but we do enjoy cooking dinners together, but we also still have our own hobbies and still have our own things that we do. We're able to, Jorana's got all of her classes, she's so busy all the time and she's got her own stuff that she's out doing and I'm out doing other stuff on my own as well. So, we're just balancing like our own hobbies and our own lives and also. Doing things together, like cooking, going out, going on, going on excursions, seeing new cities, and so it's just been, it's been really nice. 

[00:15:12] Jorana B: Yeah, and I think also, some of the things we love to do together, like you said, cooking, but also we love just on the weekends, if we're in Lüneburg, staying here, we love going on walks, and like, instead of taking the buses, we'll just walk everywhere. So we have more time together, and also, we really both like exercising and just doing anything to move our bodies a little bit more. So, we go to the gym like John was talking about on campus together. if we kind of find a gap in our schedules and then if not, then we'll go on walks on the weekends and, and yeah, and also John will do anything with me. So he's always on board to do anything like any hobbies that I want to do. And also, if any hobbies that he wants to do. 

[00:16:01] John K: And one of our favorite things, whenever we're really bored on a Sunday, whenever we just don't have a lot going on, we'll always go in town to Die Junge Bäckerei, which is a bakery in Germany. By the way, the German bakeries are absolutely awesome. People, like, for the Americans, like it's just so much different. It's just so much better. Like this bread is really cooked fresh every single day. They've got bread, they've got pastries, they've got pretzels, like everything. Like it's really, it's really so, so good. And they've got fresh stuff all across. It's like, they've got this stuff called mettbrötchen. They've got, which there's like a meat sandwich, with raw meat on it. It sounds really interesting, but it's really good. They've got like egg sandwiches. They've got like pastrami sandwiches. They've got everything at these bakeries. It's really like one of my favorite places. You know, that's one of the things I'm absolutely going to miss the most about Germany is just the bakeries. Like I just love doing that. It's so nice going there on Sundays, getting a nice breakfast and sitting there for an hour or two and drink some coffee and talk. 

[00:17:09] David Gilland: Yeah, yeah, well, that's a very, very German tradition. So, you guys are really, you know, working your way into the culture there. And you mentioned Bäckerei Junge, that is really one of the best bakeries in in Lüneburg. So, yeah, I can see that that makes a lot of sense to me. So, what strategies have you used to stay in touch with family and friends back home?

[00:17:33] Jorana B: I definitely think, for me, it was just at first communicating, with my family and friends, kind of our schedules, figuring them out, so we always kind of have set times. I always know, like, what, during my, in my time zone, exactly when, like, my mom has work off, or my dad has a break during his job, and we always call each other really quick, it's very good because even sometimes when we get super busy with our lives here in Lüneburg, if we're going to classes, we're kind of really in that academic sense, but also if we're traveling and seeing new things, we can get really caught up in our lives, and it's, it's hard to, really impressive to keep those relationships, like, while you're studying abroad because it's a lot of work. It's something extra, but it's also something that's really important. So, yeah. 

[00:18:25] John K: It's definitely different navigating the time zone difference. with our family. That's one of the biggest challenges. But I think a lot of the skills that we've learned through our long distance relationship has really helped us, like, stay in touch with our, with our families through that way.

[00:18:43] Jorana B: And then, yeah, so, me and John also, live in a student housing. it's called WiWaWo-William-Watt-Strasse, so it's, it's student housing, where there's, so there's a bunch of German people that live there, but also a ton of international students, which is so cool because I think I've talked to so many people from Korea, from Japan, from Germany, from Poland, from Egypt, from Pakistan, so it's really great. There's so many people there, and we live together in our apartment with two, two other roommates that are Polish, one is Polish and one is German. And then we ended up living together because USAC gave us the option to like to submit a roommate request. So, if you knew a participant and you wanted to room with them, you had like submit a housing application and it kind of you ask questions about you how you would like to live, and also, if you want to live with a specific person, just put down their names and then we will try our best to, put you guys together.

[00:20:04] David Gilland: How has, class influenced your, your travel plans? And I mean, how, how are you balancing your academic life with your, your travel life as a student? 

[00:20:16] Jorana B: Yeah, so definitely just making sure, that I'm on top of everything. It's super important. Obviously, John and I both are very strong on our academics, so making sure we're doing everything before we travel, and also, you feel a lot better when you're traveling without thinking about the five assignments that you have to do the next day, so that's obviously really great. Kind of made us like from my class, the global sustainability class. It really made me think about how I'm traveling, and because obviously travel is just so big. I mean, we, we already have increased our carbon footprint just from coming to Germany because of our very long flight from the United States, so kind of seeing what we can do to minimize that while we're here, and so obviously me and John take as many trains as we can and we don't try to take, as a many flights as we would like to and also just because yes flights can be sometimes cheaper than trains if you book way in advanced, that is really great. It's way cheaper and it's really good because David and the program they put out all of our long weekends and a lot of exams for on Fridays out before, so we know exactly when we're going to be traveling or most likely going to be traveling so we can really plan on getting those train tickets, and if we're somewhere else we always make sure we know what their guidelines of say just like a trash separation or like what they're kind of like what in that country or region what's different. I also just learned so much from my class and we talked a lot about it and how everyone's different and how more we can talk about it, in the program, like how we can talk about what sustainable travel and because we already have carbon footprint coming into the program, how we can minimize that or, just decrease while we're still here, we did a carbon footprint, like project like a USAC sustainability project. So, we put out a survey for all the USAC students in our program and everyone filled out all the questions we had. It was basically that how much money did they spend on like certain things like food, how much they traveled, flights, trains, just any type of transportation. And we calculated it kind of to just show people that what impact we do have on the environment, but also we took another approach to and showed how we can minimize that. Like, what can we do to really change what we're doing now, and, and yeah, so it was really cool to calculate that and compare it to what our lives in the United States and also take that and incorporate it when, we're back in the United States. 

[00:23:15] David Gilland: So if you could distill what you learned in the carbon footprint project down into one or 2 statements about sustainable travel that you would want to communicate to say, future USAC students, what could you I know this is a big question just on the spur, but how could you, what, what, what, what do you think you would say?

[00:23:38] Jorana B: I would say travel 100%. so much. really, really, the biggest thing is seen how you're traveling and that there's always, always options for trains and bikes and walking and just all of that, I mean, it just, you can just tell the immense impact. It's so much better to take that train and it's cheaper. And then I would say the second really biggest thing is, it's just minimizing consumption. I mean, I think we've already coming into Germany have a really, we're already kind of doing that because we got to pack everything in a suitcase. So, we're already minimizing and we already know that we have to minimize, but minimizing what you're here and especially, in our project, we talked about, like, buying what you need. Like, you know, we have that, like, assumption in the United States that you have to go to the store because you're far away, so you have to buy in bulk of everything, and here, we have class, and there's a grocery store right next to us, so we can just buy dinner. Fresh ingredients, right after class, go home and cook it and have no food waste, for example, so, yeah.

[00:24:51] John K: I've gotta go to class soon, but before I go, I'm gonna tell you guys my three favorite things about Germany, okay? Alright, are you ready for this? Okay. My three favorite things about Germany. Number one is Berlin. Berlin is possibly, quite possibly, the greatest city in the world, one of our first big USAC field trips that we took was to Berlin, and oh man, that place is amazing. There's so much there, it's literally, the food is amazing, there's so much history, and it's only a two hour train ride away from Lüneburg, so it's really close, and we're able to get some train tickets and go have a great time in Berlin. So that's one of the best things. Number two is Munich. Oh my gosh, not Munich, but Oktoberfest. Oktoberfest is one of the coolest things of all time, especially the Munich breakfast. Like the Munich breakfast is Weisswurst and pretzels. So, whoever thought of pretzels for breakfast, that's might be one of the greatest ideas that I've ever heard in my life. So Weisswurst is like these little German sausages, and you eat it with a pretzel for breakfast with mustard and it's like that's like the Munich breakfast and it is so good. All right, and number three is my favorite food called leberwurst. Okay leberwurst I literally eat that stuff like every single day. I'm not even kidding. It is so good. It's basically this this, it's liver sausage that you can spread on a piece of bread and eat, but it sounds really, really crazy, but it's so good, like it's actually like really delicious. So, if you guys ever are in Germany, you've got to try it. Like I'm telling you, and they have it at all these in the US too. I just never knew it. All right. Anyways, now we're going to flip the script, and I'm going to ask David a question. So, David, definitely really interesting as most of the USAC program directors are not Americans, so how did you find yourself as a USAC program director in Lüneburg? And could you tell us a little bit about your cross cultural romance? 

[00:27:01] David Gilland: Okay, yeah, yeah, that's a good question. Thanks, well, actually, I was, doing my doctoral work in Scotland and that's where I met my, my wife is German. She was also a PhD student there, and so we met and she, she was actually applying for jobs in the U. S. and I was applying for jobs in Germany, and, the one in Lüneburg stuck a little bit more quickly, and so I ended up moving to Lüneburg in 2011, and then we, she came to Lüneburg and we got married eventually, and so I was teaching at Leuphana and then also at the university in Braunschweig for a few years and did another stint in a high school here, which was a really great experience, but also very difficult work, and yeah, came to USAC about two and a half years ago, and that was, yeah, really, I got to know the USAC program right when I moved to Germany, so, almost 15 years ago, and, you know, I think it's, it's you're right, most of the Resident Directors abroad are local, or at least from that country, but not in every case, and I think, you know, there's advantages and disadvantages probably to every situation, but, I do think it, well, at least I try to communicate what it's like to be an American in Germany to the students here, it can be frustrating. There are things that are weird. There are things that are uncomfortable, but I've been here long enough to also see why things are the way they are, and they have explanations. That doesn't mean that it's always great, but, you know, I can, I can kind of explain things, and I know a little bit about how German’s tick. I'm married to one. And, you know, so I, I feel like if there's something I really do have to offer, it's, it's kind of that insider knowledge in the sense that I know what's going on in Germany, but I also understand how Americans might process that. So, I try to really very intentionally speak from that position to, to try to say, well, this is, you know, things are the way they are for a certain reason, and, I think that's, that's one of the nice things about, what I can do in this position as a Resident Director, and I, and I really enjoy that it's you get a lot of questions on the fly about why is this? Sometimes I really have a quick answer, but that's really one of the fun parts about the job. People ask questions all the time, and I have to really think, but that that keeps it interesting and new. It's this, you know, I'm in Lüneburg. I've been here for a while, but every new group of students kind of helps me see Lüneburg with fresh eyes, and that's really, it's a privilege actually to walk through town for the 10, 000th time and yet also be able to see it for the first time in a certain way, so that's really, really nice. 

[00:30:06] John K: Yeah, well, I just want to say that it's one of the coolest things about the, USAC Lüneburg program is on Day One seeing a friendly face in America, also having an American leader has really been helpful to help us be integrated in the culture earlier a lot less intimidating that way. Okay, so David, I've got another question for you. So, having a cross cultural relationship, having a German wife, what cultural differences have you had to navigate in your guys relationship?

[00:30:39] David Gilland: In a cross-cultural relationship, communication is really just, it's kind of like, one of the greatest things is also where the greatest, the biggest problems can arise. So, you know, I think, you know, she's really my wife is really highly fluent in English, and my, my German's not too shabby at this point. And we still find ways to miscommunicate, you know, how you, how you phrase things, your tone, the way you use certain words, so there's a lot of discussions in our house about, you know, what did things mean? and, and there's still miscommunication that that's not to say there's not a lot of also really, really good communication, but it's, it certainly is it, it makes, you know, it's, it becomes a factor in life and we, in that sense, very much kind of a linguistically, oriented family. There's a, and we're, we're switching back and forth between languages. So, it's, it's really, but I, I think that's a, you know, an advantage and it gives you a lot of, flexibility and communication and you learn how to express things in certain in certain ways, so, yeah, 

[00:31:51] John K: Well, thank you guys so much for having me on the USAC pod, I've got to go run to the International Affairs Since 1945 class. I've got a presentation to give but thank you guys so much for having me. It was great, being a guest on the podcast. 

[00:32:10] Jorana B: All right, John. Thank you so much, and I've got this from now on. Do you think that you have adopted any German traditions or values in your relationship in your family or some that are different or American ones? 

[00:32:28] David Gilland: Yeah, absolutely, we, you know, where to begin, you know, I think we, we live a European lifestyle, we do have a car, but we, we take the train as much as possible, we, we really do think about how much things cost also in terms energy usage costs a lot here, so we're, we're really careful with, you know, how we use heat and things like that and our appliances, I suppose for me personally, I, I try to really take time to enjoy life, not be so, on the move all the time, it's one of the great one of things really like about being a Resident Director and going through town with the students, that's one of the things I came to Europe for in the beginning, and so, experiencing that with students again, a new every term is really great. I think, you know, in terms of food, we have, become a lot more vegetarian slash vegan in our eating, we, we eat a traditional German abendbrot a lot for dinner. So, it's really common in Germany to have a cold dinner, so that would be yeah, loaf of bread with maybe cold cuts cheese, we add some salad, or maybe some soup to that, but really not a fully warm cook meal for dinner, we that's something it's grown on me over the years. I found it a little bit difficult, I kind of, especially in the winter, I really wanted a warm meal in the evening, and I've, I've gotten used to having this abendbrot, which is, which is really common in Germany. I still cook some American stuff. There's a - German pancakes tend to be kind of really thin and flat and American pancakes are fluffy, so I do make American pancakes. I'm from the South, so I like to fry chicken and make greens and even cook grits or cornbread occasionally, so we, we do that a lot, we grill a lot, so, no, it's, it's our, our house is definitely culturally mixed. It's a, it's, it's a little bit of both and hopefully the best of both rather than the worst. Yeah, 

[00:34:45] Jorana B: and then also, is there any like American foods that your wife doesn't like or that she does like maybe when you guys visit like the US or when you make those dishes here in Germany? 

[00:35:00] David Gilland: She's really suspicious of cornbread, although she, she likes it when she has it kind of, but it's not, but when I say, I think I'm going to make some cornbread, she doesn't really doesn't jump for joy, but, she actually, she does kind of like it when I make it, she, I do, every now and then I like to fry fish and kind of the traditional kind of Southern way, so, and that's, that's pretty popular at home for the most part, but. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, I have to be, I have to, you know, kind of, let people know in advance what I'm going to try out and make sure that they're, they're into it. Otherwise, I'll be eating alone. 

[00:35:42] Jorana B: Yeah, and then is there anything that she makes that she makes that you don't like, or that you do like?

[00:35:49] David Gilland: Well, generally, no, you know, I've been here for a while. I, I, I like most of the German food and especially the vegan and vegetarian stuff, which has really gotten a lot better as I said, but, my wife will eat, boiled potatoes with quark, which is, quark is kind of like, it's like a heavy, it's like sour cream, except quite a bit heavier, and you maybe put chives in it, and so it's, it's in a sense, it's similar to baked potato, but they also add, linseed oil to it and there's it's a bit it's not that it tastes bad, but it's just kind of heavy in a certain way, that is a bit strange to me, so I do eat it, but it's not my favorite dish, but it's, it's, it's okay in the winter because it's warm and it's filling, but it's, it's always one of those things, that's, where I'm not quite there yet.

[00:36:46] Jorana B: Have you noticed any differences on how Germans and Americans approach, like, love, marriage? 

[00:36:53] David Gilland: Sure. I think, you know, Germans are really private, so you will you can know people for a long time before you get many insights into their personal lives, the best way to get to know Germans, it's great how John talked about that, but going to the gym, getting involved in a sport or some kind of club or activity, that's where you really have a good chance to meet Germans, and they're, they come out of their shells a bit. I don't know how to otherwise to say it, but, you definitely see that the private life in a lot of cases is very, very private. There's people work together for 30 years and don't really know if their colleague is married or single, it's not always the case, but traditionally that there was a really big distance between the public and private. Life, so I think that that barrier is one of the things that you, you do notice as you get to know people, then people open up, and as you become close friends, and you really share in that, probably like, you would, but I think Americans tend to be a bit more open more quickly than Germans are, so that's definitely one of the one of the things 

[00:38:06] Jorana B: And last question, David. So, what advice would you give to others in a cross cultural relationship? 

[00:38:12] David Gilland: You know, I think to be in a cross cultural relationship, you have to be okay with yourself. You have to kind of be able to accept things that you don't quite understand and assume that, you know, your partner wants the best. I think if you're, if you're either too self critical or too unsure of yourself, it's really going to be hard to date or be with someone long term who comes from a different culture. I think you, you have to, be at peace with yourself. I think that's a big thing, and then I think you need to be patient and you need to try to understand, and I think, I guess one thing I probably used to do 20 years ago was I kind of thought I knew how the world worked and I wanted to, put things in the categories and it turns out the world's a lot more complicated, and I think you just have to kind of take a step back and not be so quick to judge, not be so quick to put things in the categories, because if you want to have everything nailed down with a label on it and put in a box in your shelf, that's, eventually going to be a problem in a relationship, so I think I would encourage people to be comfortable with themselves and then be open minded as much as possible. So, Jorana, so how has being in Lüneburg, shaped your perspective on relationships and communication? What's new for you in that regard now? 

[00:39:48] Jorana B: Yeah, I think the biggest new thing was really just living with John. Yeah, because. We were only kind of close to each other, like, in the same town for around, like, six months of our relationship, and we're going to be dating for almost four years now, so, coming abroad here was really, like, very eye opening just because, it was the first time that we've been living together, so definitely, changed my perspective because we learned even more about each other, which I didn't think was possible, that like, how David, you mentioned earlier, just having like, when you talked about, cross cultural relationships, how much patience you need and everything. think it was really the same thing for me, just knowing that although we know so much about each other, there's still new things and those things that, we just need to be patient on and talk it out and that everything's going to be okay, you know that we're different and we can also come together a lot, and it really did help our communication because I feel like we always had better communication because we were so long distance that we had to learn how to communicate with one another so much, but though this was kind of a different form of communication, because we are seeing each other every day, so it's kind of a different type of communication, so it was really interesting to see and kind of learn through one another. so yeah, 

[00:41:18] David Gilland: And so, have you picked up on any lessons about love, connection, or resilience that you're going to take away from this experience? 

[00:41:30] Jorana B: I think the biggest lesson that I've learned about love, connection, and resilience is definitely, just being like in touch and learning all three of those things about not just John, but also about family about you see how important it is all those three things when you do go study abroad and you are 1000 miles away from everyone, like your family and friends, so it really teaches you how much you should be connected and how you should reach out in that, even when I come home, I feel like I've learned a lot of staying in touch with people and kind of realize how much love you have for other people when they're not with you all the time, you can't see them all the time, so I think that's just a really big lesson just I learned to not take things for granted as much as I did before just so I when I come home I feel like I'll be even more connected with the people around me even though I've been away from them for four, for four months.

[00:42:31] David Gilland: And if you could give advice to another couple that was thinking about studying abroad together and Lüneburg or somewhere else, what would it be? 

[00:42:41] Jorana B: I would say my biggest piece of advice would be definitely to have patience because, I mean, maybe there'd be couples that were coming from being together close. to each other, not like John and I having a long distance relationship, or maybe there's couples coming from a long distance relationship and then being together all the time, but I think both situations would just require a lot of patience because it really teaches you so much about one another and how different you are, but also how similar you are in ways that you didn't even know, and then definitely just to take every opportunity that you can with one another because having someone right next to you is just so great. I mean, it's just amazing just to always have someone with you all the time, no matter if you're sad or you're happy and also the security of it, so just when I was traveling, I always had John always had someone that I'm like, Hey, let's go do this, and it's 100 percent on board, you know, and just always feeling safe no matter where we are, so just taking, taking that and really using it because it's super great when you're so far away from home and your family and your friends, and also just, yeah, just all of those things. 

[00:43:59] David Gilland: Thank you, I, I certainly appreciate being able to be a part of your story and it's been great to have both of you here, it's, we've had couples form on the program, but not too many couples come on the program together, so it's, it's really been, I think it's been a, really just such a great thing for the, for the, for everyone, all the students and, all of us, the, the, the faculty and staff, we've really enjoyed having you guys and, we're just wishing you all the very best for the future.

[00:44:35] Jorana B: Yeah, thank you so much. I mean, it's also been super great and just seeing the support from you, David, and just I mean, you've been just a great director overall, just always there for us, which is really great, and, yeah, thank you guys so much. 

[00:44:51] David Gilland: So, thank you so much for, taking the time to speak with me today. I've really enjoyed this and, we hope that, everyone out there who is listening will start. Checking out the USAC website and making their plans to visit Lüneburg. Bye, Jorana. 

[00:45:12] Jorana B: Bye. Thank you so much, David. It's been a pleasure.

[00:45:16] Alejandra M: Thank you for listening to the Study Abroad Pod, a podcast brought to you by the University Studies Abroad Consortium. Please listen, subscribe, and review us on Buzzsprout or wherever you get your podcasts. You can follow USAC on all your favorite social media channels. At Study Abroad, USAC, and if you have an idea for a future episode or want to learn more about Study Abroad, you can email us at Study abroad@usac.edu.